Question about poison weapons.

[TrentL]

I think Beserker gets it, he didn't see the 4+ number in Brackets that was mentioned, and I agree sometimes things are a bit hard to find in the Codex's you have to jump around here and there to find them, and if you don't read the book 100% it can be hard to catch everything. I mean I missed the Descent of Angels because I figured "Why read the Jump Pack section of the equipment I know what a jump pack is"

I like it when its that simple personally hehe

[Topher]

I disagree but don't have any facts lol

To me Poison says
Poson attacks will always wound on a roll of 4 or better (4+) reguardless of strength/toughness...
It doesn't say poison will always fail to wound on a 3 or below

What is the wording on the re-roll part?
Doesn't it say if your strength is greater than or equal the toughness you are given a reroll to wound... (so 2+ rerollable)

Just to play devils advocate...
So if a poison carnifex wounds a space marine ...
Is it still insta-kill since you say poison wounds don't use strength?

If you give a carnifex(or other monsterous creatures) rending claws
Does this mean that you now allow armor saves when you roll a 5 to wound since Rending (roll of a 6 gives no armour save)overwrites the Monsterous creature allow no armour saves?

Strength vs toughness should be used ... BUT the worst you will need is a 4 when you have poison.

[Henshini]

You said it yourself right here:

Poison attacks will always wound on a roll of 4 or better (4+) regardless of strength/toughness...

Strength and toughness are completly ignored for the purposes of determining the to-wound roll. Later, they're used for determining if a wound is elligible for a reroll, but not for determining the to-wound roll.

[Orbital]

I disagree but don't have any facts lol...

To me Poison says
Poson attacks will always wound on a roll of 4 or better (4+) reguardless of strength/toughness...
It doesn't say poison will always fail to wound on a 3 or below

What is the wording on the re-roll part?
Doesn't it say if your strength is greater than or equal the toughness you are given a reroll to wound... (so 2+ rerollable)

Just to play devils advocate...
So if a poison carnifex wounds a space marine ...
Is it still insta-kill since you say poison wounds don't use strength?

If you give a carnifex(or other monsterous creatures) rending claws
Does this mean that you now allow armor saves when you roll a 5 to wound since Rending (roll of a 6 gives no armour save)overwrites the Monsterous creature allow no armour saves?

Strength vs toughness should be used ... BUT the worst you will need is a 4 when you have poison.

I'm gonna go ahead and suggest you check out the rules and maybe re-read what you wrote here. Seems like you don't quite have a grasp yet on what you're trying to get at.

[Twinlinked]

I disagree but don't have any facts lol...

To me Poison says
Poson attacks will always wound on a roll of 4 or better (4+) reguardless of strength/toughness...
It doesn't say poison will always fail to wound on a 3 or below

What is the wording on the re-roll part?
Doesn't it say if your strength is greater than or equal the toughness you are given a reroll to wound... (so 2+ rerollable)

Just to play devils advocate...
So if a poison carnifex wounds a space marine ...
Is it still insta-kill since you say poison wounds don't use strength?

If you give a carnifex(or other monsterous creatures) rending claws
Does this mean that you now allow armor saves when you roll a 5 to wound since Rending (roll of a 6 gives no armour save)overwrites the Monsterous creature allow no armour saves?

Strength vs toughness should be used ... BUT the worst you will need is a 4 when you have poison.

I'm gonna go ahead and suggest you check out the rules and maybe re-read what you wrote here. Seems like you don't quite have a grasp yet on what you're trying to get at.

A.

[Tokkan]

Just to play devils advocate...
So if a poison carnifex wounds a space marine ...
Is it still insta-kill since you say poison wounds don't use strength?

It's still a Strength Whatever attack. It just always Wounds on a set number (re-rollable). So, a BAD IDEA for 'Fexes to have it (since wounding on 2+ is better than 4+ rerollable, unless your dice hate you)

If you give a carnifex(or other monsterous creatures) rending claws
Does this mean that you now allow armor saves when you roll a 5 to wound since Rending (roll of a 6 gives no armour save)overwrites the Monsterous creature allow no armour saves?

Devil's Advocate or no, that makes ZERO sense. It doesn't overwrite the MC rules at all, and wouldn't even IMPLY it.

As with a lot of ruling debates... Read the rules you're talking about, then talk. Sometimes reading about them when a thing like this comes up opens up a new understanding of the rule, but I feel the poison rules are pretty clear cut.

[Topher]

LOL I know it makes no sense that is why I posted it ... (but you could debate it but would be wrong)
As I said that is what I think they meant (but not what is written)

Rending states that a roll of a 6 to wound negates armour save (Implying that a regular wound roll allows armor save...)

The rending upgrade is an example of an "upgrade" nerfing the general rule Monsterous creature
since Poison UPGRADE is nerfing Strength rule
How can strength not count for wound but then count on strength of weapon for autokill (which it does)
((I was being a bit sarcastic I guess)

Anyway I learned not to put Toxin sacs on my Fex now ...(Ps. A search the web and you will find posts on both sides of this debate)

Hopefully this will be resolved once dark eldar are released ... they have Poison Close combat and ranged weapons so I expect a clearer ruling. (I expect to see some high strength characters with default poison CC weapons lol)

[Orbital]

LOL I know it makes no sense that is why I posted it ...

I mean this with great respect and no malice intended, I promise, but I have to ask: Why waste everyone's time with something even you know doesn't make sense?

Like I said: Read the rules, think about what you're going to say a little before you say it. Thanks.

Hopefully this will be resolved once dark eldar are released

There's nothing to resolve. The rules cover it all quite adequately.

[Topher]

Is it really a waste of time?
I said right away that I had no info to back up my thoughts.

I am glad everyone responded though. I had this debate before and let it drop at a tournament...(back in May )
I read all the posts saying that the first sentence is the most important (no need to read the rest)

I have abided by the written rule, even though it does seem a bit off (to Me)

I was trying to explain my point rather than just say "NO I think you are wrong"
(Ps. I have read the rules and have played for a few years, I just think the written rule is wrong )

Sorry for wasting everyones time ... But I still think it SHOULD be the other way, although it is not until an update occurs
I guess I'm just hoping for more. It does seem like such a waste on so many creatures in the nid codex.

As someone said why would you give a fex toxin sacs ? It makes them worse...
(My question "So why did Gw have it as an "upgrade" ?")

[Henshini]

I don't think GW has a very good formula for calcualting point values of things. That being said, the toxin sacs on a high strength model would give you an advantage in some circumstances, such as figthing models with a T = S-1 or greater. WHether or not you want to be prepared for those rare occasions is up to you.