DRIVING THRUOGH RUINS

[Orbital]

If it's not ruled as Impassible, then it's Passible.

This is a good point. Hard to imagine a mostly-busted wall that's already got a few holes in it being able to hold back a Dreadnought with two gigantic fists. Either way, it underlines what Crablezworth said: You have to talk that stuff out before the game.

[Crablezworth]

My problem with all the melting through terrain stuff is it detracts from tactical play in that it's difficult to box units in and it also reduces the usefulness of certain units. What good is a skimmer or jump troops if you're letting every unit simply phase through terrain? What makes a wraith special if every unit in the game is doing what they can do?

[Orbital]

My problem with all the melting through terrain stuff is it detracts from tactical play in that it's difficult to box units in and it also reduces the usefulness of certain units. What good is a skimmer or jump troops if you're letting every unit simply phase through terrain? What makes a wraith special if every unit in the game is doing what they can do?

Wouldn't the vehicles take a test when moving through that wall?

[kairos_fateweaver]

My problem with all the melting through terrain stuff is it detracts from tactical play in that it's difficult to box units in and it also reduces the usefulness of certain units. What good is a skimmer or jump troops if you're letting every unit simply phase through terrain? What makes a wraith special if every unit in the game is doing what they can do?

Wouldn't the vehicles take a test when moving through that wall?

they take a dangerous terrain test (on a 1 become immobilized). One in six chance your rhino or raider can no longer transport bodies to where you need them therefor crippling your transport or the front facing of your battle tank. That would also make you get auto hit in combat from then on. Pretty big downside for vehicles running through ruins and rough terrain i think.

[Orbital]

My problem with all the melting through terrain stuff is it detracts from tactical play in that it's difficult to box units in and it also reduces the usefulness of certain units. What good is a skimmer or jump troops if you're letting every unit simply phase through terrain? What makes a wraith special if every unit in the game is doing what they can do?

Wouldn't the vehicles take a test when moving through that wall?

they take a dangerous terrain test (on a 1 become immobilized). One in six chance your rhino or raider can no longer transport bodies to where you need them therefor crippling your transport or the front facing of your battle tank. That would also make you get auto hit in combat from then on. Pretty big downside for vehicles running through ruins and rough terrain i think.

Yeah, I think if vehicles are just driving on through without any penalty then that is a major hit to the tactical advantage of walls and stuff. I'm not sure if I wanna be on one side of this issue or the other, but I think there are more solutions than an all-or-nothing approach.

[Crablezworth]

I don't really think a 1 in 6 chance of getting immobilized is that big of a deterrent, that's why I play it as impassable.

[LUTNIT]

I would have to agree with Crab. I just find things require a lot more tactical thinking when walls are impassible (including to infantry unless there are windows or something) instead of everything just phasing through everything as if it was barely there (1 in 6 chance its actually there essentially.)

Also all my armies are mechanized so I roll a LOT of dangerous terrain rolls for vehicles and I can honestly say a less than 17% chance of getting stuck is not something to worry about; especially in a properly setup list where there is redundancy and no one-trick-ponies or glass-hammers.

Solid impassible walls changes the game to me from "herp, derp, models run here and kill stuff, derp" to a thinking mans game. Yeah its just a game but if its a fiesta of mentally handicapped idiocy then I will much rather spend my time and money elsewhere.

[Orbital]

I don't really think a 1 in 6 chance of getting immobilized is that big of a deterrent, that's why I play it as impassable.

I would agree if I were driving one vehicle through one wall once per game. But your second vehicle... then you're looking at 1 in 3 of losing a vehicle. Do it more and you're even more likely. As a guy who's put units of Jetbikes on the table over the years, let me tell you... it makes a difference.

Also, where Dreads are concerned, being immobilized is a huge deal if you're sending him in after a unit to engage them in close combat. Or a Land Raider looking to deposit some Terminators in the right place. 1 in 6 could seem like pretty bad odds if it turns a game around against you.

Anyhow, I'm going to start sounding like an advocate of one way over the other when I'm not trying to do that. I definitely don't mean to say you should change the way you play it. I think you hit it on the head when you said it's something you have to discuss ahead of time. If you do that, you can't go wrong.

If someone didn't want to play it my way, however, I wouldn't say they were "herp derp". I think "mentally handicapped idiocy" is turning the drama dial up a bit high.

[LUTNIT]

Just as an aisde (since I'm Asian and I hate math mistakes):

Two vehicles each with a 1 in 6 chance is not 1 in 3. Otherwise 6 vehicles going through difficult would mean one and only one would fail when in realty any number could fail including all 6 or none.

First vehicle is 1/6
Second roll if the first passes is 1/6 + 5/6*1/6 = 11/36 chance or 30.5% instead of 1/3 which is 33.3%

Kind of like how a 4+ to hit that can be rerolled is only a 75% chance of success, not a 100%
3/6 + 3/6 = 6/6 which is a guaranteed hit and how some people do the math
its actually 3/6 + 3/6*3/6 = 27/36 or 75% chance

The basic formula is:
chance of success + (chance of failure*chance of success on retry)

The Asian in me made me do it...

[Orbital]

Can we agree that if you drive two vehicles through a wall that the odds of an immobilization go up? Are we okay with that?