Be Courteous & Butt Out

[Zamfir]

Orbital...


I can see your point, to an extent, but...

"As a seller, you have a right to drop a single plastic Tac Marine on the table and ask for $100. Despite how it may seem to some, that's not a decision which is made by committee or subject to peer review. If someone is looking to buy it, that's between those two parties. Caveat emptor, as Battlemaster said. Buyer beware. Everyone else can zip it."

As to the above quoted comment, I would disagree. This is a community... a lot of people here know each other, look out for each other. 'Caveat Emptor', while applicable to a certain extent, is not a rule of law, and in common society you wouldn't be considered very much of a friend if you stood by and watched someone get greatly overcharged for something. Sure, you have a right to ask a price for something... but if it's really exagerated I would think a community like this would have a right to point that out.

It's all about balance, though; civility and tact cost nothing.

That's how I see it, anyway.


-SkyBry

99% of the people who post about that person who is "overpricing" something-aren't helping-they are doing it to be an ass

[Joyous_Oblivion]

99% of the people who post about that person who is "overpricing" something-aren't helping-they are doing it to be an ass

No a lot of us consider many members of this board our friends and do not want to see people get screwed by someone. And often people come to deepspace with no intention of joining our community but to sell their models. This is fine, but some of the less experienced people in the hobby can end up getting swindled by people.

It can come off as being an asshole, but for some of the people who post with the prices they post, they deserve it and I would consider much bigger assholes in turn. And generally the more established deepspacers don't need a reminder of what they are selling or for how much.

[Orbital]

99% of the people who post about that person who is "overpricing" something-aren't helping-they are doing it to be an ass

No a lot of us consider many members of this board our friends and do not want to see people get screwed by someone. And often people come to deepspace with no intention of joining our community but to sell their models. This is fine, but some of the less experienced people in the hobby can end up getting swindled by people.

It can come off as being an asshole, but for some of the people who post with the prices they post, they deserve it and I would consider much bigger assholes in turn. And generally the more established deepspacers don't need a reminder of what they are selling or for how much.

I don't think that people who toss in their opinion on a seller's price are doing it to be assholes. It's not often that you see someone on Deep Space going out of their way just to be a jerk and make someone else's life harder. On the other hand, I don't believe that those people are our guardian angels, either, and that their motives are always altruistic and only concerned with protecting their friends. The bottom line is that its a marketplace, and nobody here is empowered as a "cop" to step in and lecture sellers on their prices.

On a side note, would you guys like me to appoint one person to act as a "watchdog" to whom concerns about prices and transactions could be expressed? It might give the community an avenue to protect itself while, at the same time, protecting the marketplace from the peanut gallery. What do you think?

[Fox]

I'm just wondering what kind of guidelines would they be following to watch over the market place? The "one mans junk is another mans treasure" comes to mind.

I don't see how people can't watch for themselves and do their own research. If they are not willing to do the research on the item and are willing to pay the asking price how is it any of our business to determine otherwise. Maybe they have been looking for this item for months, maybe they have a great deal of income and they don't care about price. It's a little arrogant to assume that we know whats better for another person without understanding that persons reasoning and drive behind the purchase.

If the buyer is a friend of yours why not send them a PM and suggest other avenues to purchase the item rather then making a public display/crusade out of it.

[Chaotic]

Let me start by saying that I also see where Orbital is coming from, and I'm sure we can all appreciate his message. But I do think SkyBry is bang on.

I've never personally had a problem with people commenting on prices before. However, I did notice a few threads getting into some sort of bickering between the seller and a third party (who wasn't interested in buying), and nobody needs that. I think a short comment such as 'I'd be interested for a lower price' is fine, or if someone knows something about the product (ex: a certain product has a poor reputation or is being defective) I appreciate it if they're willing to share that knowledge, even if it is to a seller's detriment.

The way I see it, so long as it's in good faith, it's free speech and others are free to disagree with it. Of course, it should remain courteous and on topic, and one comment should suffice. I can't say I'm a big fan of the idea of forcing third party replies to PM, because open discussions can be to the benefit of both buyers and sellers. For some people it's very easy to go from being uninterested to becoming a buyer, and vice versa. Besides, sometimes open discussions actually work out very well - one common example is where multiple buyers can agree to divvy up a seller's lot. Everyone wins!

Another problem with barring comments on products or pricing is that it might make it easier for less experienced buyers to get ripped off, though thankfully such situations are rare. But as far as maxims go, caveat emptor is pretty unforgiving. I think sellers should also have a responsibility to ensure that they provide a proper description of what they are selling and to ensure that their sale is fair to buyers (by which I mean, not a blatant rip off). Once again, it's all about good faith.

As long as we can all be fair to both buyers and sellers, things should continue to go fairly smoothly.

[KrysDagger]

Hey,

If you feel really strongly that your buddy is about to overpay for something... call them ... or PM them... There really is no need to make the seller have to defend his price is someone is willing to pay it... I side with Orb on this one, if you are not interested in buying stfu... if you are really worried about it ($100 for a single Tau FireWarrior) PM ... don't bog down a thread ...

And to be honest ... if someone is to lazy to look up on their own what the going value of something is... then they kind of get what they ask for... or at least they get what they are willing to pay.

Krys

[Ebiniser]

If people want to join the board just to pawn their stuff off that's fine, but be courteous about it. I remember on the old board someone named WarTrade started spamming the marketplace and was not only asking stupid prices, but being a real jerk-off to people. That was the only time I horned in on a thread because I really wished an admin would have told the guy to cool his jets.

If people butting in is an issue, then I think a little more moderation of the marketplace would be helpful, but it goes both ways and sellers shouldn't go unchecked if they aren't polite about their business. Perhaps some ground rules that could be pinned?

[Glendor Murgantis]

I also agree with Orb on this, as I posted earlier. I thought he was quite diplomatic in how he phrased his post in this thread.

As a reader, I can't tell you how many times I've been irritated with folks commenting on someone's asking price. I'm also not a fan of public haggling either. Orb isn't saying keep all your comments to yourself.

If you're that worried/offended by a seller's asking price, then you can PM whomever you think needs to be told. If you're that worried/concerned that someone might be getting fleeced, then PM the person. Allow folks to work through things themselves.

I have to say that, for the most part, most of the folks here have a pretty good sense of what items are worth. If they don't, they soon will have. Things have worked out pretty well over the years, haven't they?

I know I've tried to sell stuff in the past and probably asked too much for it. I either adjusted my price or those items are still in my basement -- sometimes the price I wanted was the price I wanted and dropping the price was something that rankled. I certainly am glad folks didn't pipe up to point out what I was doing so wrong in my sale. I figured that out by the literally "nones" of offers.

As far as an ombudsman type office, I'm not sure it's needed. It might end up being counterproductive.....and hurting the marketplace.

The sense of community we have here is fostered by an "us" attitude. Yes, maybe some folks join Deep Space only to sell some of their stuff, but haranguing them about it seems to be more reflective of an "us and them" attitude and I'm not sure that that's something we need to encourage in our happy little place.

Ray

[Orbital]

Steel Paladin is going to be the Mod in charge of the Marketplace. If you find someone here is behaving in a way that seems unethical, please contact him to discuss it.

Just to be clear: If people join Deep Space just to sell their stuff, there's nothing wrong with that. By signing up there is no implied obligation that you must then become part of the community. If someone is being a jerk or handling deals in a shady way, the mods will be very quick to swoop in and deal with it. Leave it with them. Also, those who say things like "I'm interested in that item. Would you accept $X instead of your asking price?" aren't doing anything wrong. Neither is it wrong to put something in the Marketplace and ask a lot of money for it (even if it's available more cheaply elsewhere). What isn't acceptable is people who aren't interested in the item offering their personal opinions on whether or not the seller should be asking for less money. That isn't going to be tolerated because it's none of your business. If you think intercession is necessary, talk to Steel Paladin in PM.

I wanna add one more thing: I am reluctant to put any hard rules down about PM'ing people to tell them "You can get that item cheaper somewhere else". In moderation it could be a real courtesy. There's also some potential for abuse there, so please make an attempt to obey the spirit of the rules and not just the letter.

[Snarl]

Ok, a bit late. But here's my two cents anyway. I didn't right this angry, so don't take it in that vane please. More devil's advocate stuff.

---

As one of the "lurkers" who uses the marketplace extensively and has no intention of joining the Bayshore / tourney crowd (due to lack of interest, free time, and need for a beer while moving little plastic men around), I found this discussion very interesting. And mostly from the other side of things.

Protecting the community from perceived outsiders is all fine and dandy. But over the last 12 months I have had:

1) ...Persons who finalise a deal then "disappear" and don't have the courtesy to respond to pms. I personally don't care if you change change your mind (I have done so myself on occassion), but at least be polite enough and tell the seller.
2) ...Yet to put an army / force that I clearly stated I won't break up without someone asking for me to break off 1-5 guys for peanuts. I don't mind the "if you decide to break them up" variety so much, it is the "I only want these for $5" ones the really peeve me.
3) ...have had people buy something off me only to turn-around and re-sell it for a profit. That is only happened once and is a quick way to find my personal ignore list. (edit: just to clear something up, this did not happen recently.)

The haggling on here, well that's a natural part of trading. I don't mind cheap/on-a-budget tbh. I've been there and I'll likely help you out as long as it is not highway robbery. But that other stuff is quite annoying. And if the "in-crowd" is going to start swing the ban-hammer on anyone they feel is over-charging, then it seems only fair "bad" buyers get the same treatment; regular or not.

Bottom line is I enjoy buying and selling within the DS community. You don't make 10 cents on the dollar selling stuff here, but I personally get to slowly move my collection to "a good home" and I pick some useful bits for my pack-rat habit at the same time. If someone wanted to make a serious side business of selling minis, they'll go to ebay.

PS: And for the curious my gaming group mostly plays GW games of the Specialist variety now, amongst other things. If we play 40k, it's 3rd edition. Yep, odd I know but it's fun to us and we're a bunch of old farts.