DRIVING THRUOGH RUINS

[AngryCanadian]

Alright it came up last tourny, where some people though you can drive through ruins taking a difficult terrain test

i would like some others opinions

not rubble, im mean like driving through 2 or 3 story ruins, or walls big enough to obscure your vehicle or hid it completely

not in cities of death, in normal games, and with normal vehicles, Landraiders, rhino's, chimera's, Trukks

How do you guys play this?

[LUTNIT]

The rule book says you need to agree with your opponent before the game how this works. Personally I always play with vehicles only being able to go where they can physically fit. I don't let walkers "melt" through solid walls either since if that's the case, why even have solid walls? If every model on the table can go through any piece of terrain, why have terrain?

Anyway this topic is strongly debated with many believing that vehicles and everything else in the game should be able to "melt" through solid walls but I am very against it. I'm told I need to imagine it as the vehicle crashing through the wall like in movies but then I ask what happens if the building collapses? What if the vehicle is crashing through the only support and there are models on an upper floor? What happened to the hole in the wall that I should now be able to shoot through? When someone makes a good mechanic for lego terrain I will let vehicles crash through them. Until then its impassible to vehicles in my games.

[Orbital]

Personally I always play with vehicles only being able to go where they can physically fit. I don't let walkers "melt" through solid walls either since if that's the case, why even have solid walls? If every model on the table can go through any piece of terrain, why have terrain?

I don't understand. Do you play solid pieces of terrain as if you can't get cover saves behind them and they don't act as difficult terrain? I'm not advocating for driving tanks and walkers through whatever, but I don't understand the logic of "if you can drive through it, it serves no function". Can you explain?

[Crablezworth]

The rule book says you need to agree with your opponent before the game how this works. Personally I always play with vehicles only being able to go where they can physically fit. I don't let walkers "melt" through solid walls either since if that's the case, why even have solid walls? If every model on the table can go through any piece of terrain, why have terrain?

Anyway this topic is strongly debated with many believing that vehicles and everything else in the game should be able to "melt" through solid walls but I am very against it. I'm told I need to imagine it as the vehicle crashing through the wall like in movies but then I ask what happens if the building collapses? What if the vehicle is crashing through the only support and there are models on an upper floor? What happened to the hole in the wall that I should now be able to shoot through? When someone makes a good mechanic for lego terrain I will let vehicles crash through them. Until then its impassible to vehicles in my games.

+1


I find the simplest way to play is if it fits it fits, if it doesn't it doesn't. And as far as how vehicles interact with terrain, I generally play if it's under an inch and a half like a low wall you can drive over it taking the normal dangerous terrain test. Otherwise go around.

Some people prefer to play looser and in a more abstract fashion and that's why it's really important to discuss all the terrain pre-game.

[LUTNIT]

I don't understand. Do you play solid pieces of terrain as if you can't get cover saves behind them and they don't act as difficult terrain? I'm not advocating for driving tanks and walkers through whatever, but I don't understand the logic of "if you can drive through it, it serves no function". Can you explain?

No, you can still get cover saves and such, but if you can just move through anything as if it isn't there then then why not just play the US tournament way with circles marked on the table top that count as area terrain and shooting through them is a cover save?

Also what happens if a vehicle only makes it part way through, do you cut the tank in half and put one half on either side? What if it gets immobilized but there is absolutely no physical way to fit the model there?

To expand on the first one I have seen twice now at GW where someone tank shocks through a solid ruin to an enemy unit right on the other side only 1-2" from the ruin. The vehicle is immobilized or wrecked from a death or glory, so now where does the vehicle/wreck go? The worst one was when it was found out after that the vehicle doesn't fit on the ground floor of the ruin at all so it ended up having to be placed 8" away from the unit that immobilized it with said death or glory.

I have also seen cases where a vehicle goes through a ruin that is only as wide as itself and there are models on upper floors. So if the vehicle just took out that wall, why is the building still standing?
If a vehicle goes through a solid wall can I now shoot through the hole that is supposed to be there? Generally no since it violates the LoS rules but shouldn't there be a big hole in the wall that LoS can now be checked through?

I find all this very similar to skimmers "hop shocking" where they go up and over a vertical barrier to land on top of the unit they are tank shocking. What if the vehicle can't fit? What if it gets wrecked? Are the models now standing on top of/under the wreck and are in dangerous? What if it gets immobilized and there is absolutely no way to fit the models 1" away in any direction?

[Orbital]

I don't understand. Do you play solid pieces of terrain as if you can't get cover saves behind them and they don't act as difficult terrain? I'm not advocating for driving tanks and walkers through whatever, but I don't understand the logic of "if you can drive through it, it serves no function". Can you explain?

No, you can still get cover saves and such, but if you can just move through anything as if it isn't there then then why not just play the US tournament way with circles marked on the table top that count as area terrain and shooting through them is a cover save?

No, I get it. You were just saying "If every model on the table can go through any piece of terrain, why have terrain?", and I was clarifying that you still use it for other things.

[Threepwood]

You know what, I'm gonna build a red killa kan and crash it through all the walls in a ruin, while screaming OH YEAHHHH!

[Crablezworth]

I don't understand. Do you play solid pieces of terrain as if you can't get cover saves behind them and they don't act as difficult terrain? I'm not advocating for driving tanks and walkers through whatever, but I don't understand the logic of "if you can drive through it, it serves no function". Can you explain?

No, you can still get cover saves and such, but if you can just move through anything as if it isn't there then then why not just play the US tournament way with circles marked on the table top that count as area terrain and shooting through them is a cover save?

No, I get it. You were just saying "If every model on the table can go through any piece of terrain, why have terrain?", and I was clarifying that you still use it for other things.

It certainly reduces tactical play if there's no object permanence. Imagine playing a first person shooter where you could just melt through everything, wouldn't be much fun.

[Orbital]

It certainly reduces tactical play if there's no object permanence. Imagine playing a first person shooter where you could just melt through everything, wouldn't be much fun.

Well, whether it reduces tactical gameplay or not... I wasn't asking about that part. I don't really have much of a preference, myself, so I'd be fine playing it as you and Lutnit prefer. Lutnit was asking, however, that if tanks and walkers could march through terrain then what's the point of having it? And I wanted to get clarification.

[Tokkan]

I, however, weigh in on the other side of the spectrum. I have no problem with some vehicles driving through walls, provided that there's actually space for them on the other side. I don't care if the tank is turning into gas and melting through the walls, or if it's leaving a giant hole and a cloud of dust conveniently in the same location as the former wall. If it's not ruled as Impassible, then it's Passible.

If a vehicle is trying to get into a building fails its dangerous terrain test, it just sits at the edge of the building. If it passes, but can't make it all the way in, I play it as it reaches the near edge of movement, but can't go further (like infantry moving through walls; you don't split the model in half to show where they are, they go to the near edge.)

As for why walls don't fall down, all building support columns in the 41st millennium have a compression safety factor of at least 50, so all loads can be supported by a single column. Does it make sense? No. But it's also just a game, in a universe where giant mushroom soccer hooligans have weapons and gear work because they think it will, so it's not that much of a stretch.

That being said, I'd be fine with walls being ruled as impassible for everything, or if a vehicle DOES bull its way through a wall that the entire ruin becomes dangerous terrain (to represent things being a lot less stable). But, it'd have to extend to infantry as well; No going through walls unless you either find a door/window, the wall is low enough, or you have wargear for cutting through walls (like in Cities of Death) or run the risk of the building destabilizing (dangerous terrain).