2011 Necron Codex - Mindshackle Scarabs

[darnott]

The description for Mindshackle Scarabs on page 81 states, "... If the [3D6 Leadership] test is failed, the victim strikes out at his allies. Instead of attacking normally, he inflicts D3 hits on his own unit when it is his turn to attack. ...".

For example, the infected victim is a Nemesis Dreadknight. (The Nemesis Dreadknight is an example of a Monstrous Creature which only exists in an unit of one. One could substitute the Nemesis Dreadknight with the last Guardsman in an unit.) Does the Nemesis Dreadknight attack itself in close combat? I feel like I am overreaching if my answer is yes, so I have to say no. However, the Nemesis Dreadknight still does not get to attack normally after failing the 3D6 Leadership test, that is, the Nemesis Dreadknight does not make any attacks in close combat on test failure.

For example, two Lords each with Mindshackle Scarabs are in base contact only with one Assault Terminator of a five-Terminator unit. Does the Assault Terminator have to make two 3D6 Leadership tests for infection? If the Assault Terminator fails both, then does the Assault Terminator make one set of D3 attacks, or make two sets of D3 attacks, against the other Terminators in the unit? My answer is yes that the Assault Terminator has to make two 3D6 Leadership tests for infection. However, I feel like I am overreaching if my answer is two sets of D3 attacks on the failure of both tests, so I have to say one set of D3 attacks. Thus, the selected target of multiple Mindshackle Scarabs has to make a 3D6 Leadership test for each selection, but only incurs one set of D3 attacks regardless of the number of failed tests. This is my interpretation to be fair with vague/incomplete rules.

The description for Mindshackle Scarabs on page 81 starts with, "At the start of the Assault phase, after assault moves have been made, but before any blows are struck, ...", and ends with, "If he is still alive, the victim returns to normal once all blows in that round of combat have been struck."

Does the test and effect of the Mindshackle Scarabs repeat each Assault phase with the carrier of the Mindshackle Scarabs in base contact with the enemy, even though no "assault move" has occured in the Assault phase? My answer is yes, because the rules only describe a point in game time using using game events as the boundaries, and do not state an "assault move" as the game event necessary for the trigger of Mindshackle Scarabs.

Doug

[Tokkan]

Does the Nemesis Dreadknight attack itself in close combat?

I'd say yes it would, for this. It inflicts the hits on its own unit, regardless of how many models are actually in the unit.

Does the Assault Terminator have to make two 3D6 Leadership tests for infection? If the Assault Terminator fails both, then does the Assault Terminator make one set of D3 attacks, or make two sets of D3 attacks, against the other Terminators in the unit? My answer is yes that the Assault Terminator has to make two 3D6 Leadership tests for infection. However, I feel like I am overreaching if my answer is two sets of D3 attacks on the failure of both tests, so I have to say one set of D3 attacks. Thus, the selected target of multiple Mindshackle Scarabs has to make a 3D6 Leadership test for each selection, but only incurs one set of D3 attacks regardless of the number of failed tests. This is my interpretation to be fair with vague/incomplete rules.

I'm with you there; If the terminator passes the first test, he'd have to take the second, but he should only be able to make one set of attacks against his unit (Since he only has one 'turn' to attack)

Does the test and effect of the Mindshackle Scarabs repeat each Assault phase with the carrier of the Mindshackle Scarabs in base contact with the enemy, even though no "assault move" has occured in the Assault phase?

Yep! Each and every Assault phase, for each player's turn. Which could add up quickly.

If the Mindshackled player is canny, he could allocate wounds inflicted on the guy in base-to-base contact with the Lord in an attempt to avoid the incoming attacks by killing the compromised model too!

[Berserker]

I would say for the dreadknight part is if its a strait one on one fight then yes he gets no attack in but if it's a close combat with multiple units that if the other units are in CC range that he could attack them.

example 1 dreadknight and a terminator squad in CC with a group of lychguards with a lord attached.

As for the part of having multiple mindshakle on the same model I would say once its affect it can't be affected twice in the same turn so having more then 1 just double your chances that terminator won't hit your group.

[Chimera]

For example, the infected victim is a Nemesis Dreadknight. (The Nemesis Dreadknight is an example of a Monstrous Creature which only exists in an unit of one. One could substitute the Nemesis Dreadknight with the last Guardsman in an unit.) Does the Nemesis Dreadknight attack itself in close combat? I feel like I am overreaching if my answer is yes, so I have to say no. However, the Nemesis Dreadknight still does not get to attack normally after failing the 3D6 Leadership test, that is, the Nemesis Dreadknight does not make any attacks in close combat on test failure.

It does for sure. A unit of one is still a unit and the entry indicates that the model might die as a result. I do not agree that a unit of one would attack another unit in a multiple combat. The entry clearly states "his own unit", not "any friendly unit that is part of the same combat".

For example, two Lords each with Mindshackle Scarabs are in base contact only with one Assault Terminator of a five-Terminator unit. Does the Assault Terminator have to make two 3D6 Leadership tests for infection? If the Assault Terminator fails both, then does the Assault Terminator make one set of D3 attacks, or make two sets of D3 attacks, against the other Terminators in the unit? My answer is yes that the Assault Terminator has to make two 3D6 Leadership tests for infection. However, I feel like I am overreaching if my answer is two sets of D3 attacks on the failure of both tests, so I have to say one set of D3 attacks. Thus, the selected target of multiple Mindshackle Scarabs has to make a 3D6 Leadership test for each selection, but only incurs one set of D3 attacks regardless of the number of failed tests. This is my interpretation to be fair with vague/incomplete rules.

This is a tough call, but I think a model will only ever make d3 attacks, regardless of the number of models with MS in BtB. That model is either being affected by scarabs or not - it makes no difference how many models in BtB have them. Whether it must test more than once is anyone's guess and I could see a FAQ going either way. I'd come to an agreement or 4+ this part until we get clarification.

Does the test and effect of the Mindshackle Scarabs repeat each Assault phase with the carrier of the Mindshackle Scarabs in base contact with the enemy, even though no "assault move" has occured in the Assault phase? My answer is yes, because the rules only describe a point in game time using using game events as the boundaries, and do not state an "assault move" as the game event necessary for the trigger of Mindshackle Scarabs.

It does for sure work every turn. It clearly says "at the start of the Assault Phase", not "when charged or charging" or "in the necron player's turn" (as with the tyranid broodlord's psychic powers).

[darnott]

OK, we seem to have the following as a concensus so far:

1. The selection for Mindshackle Scarabs occurs every Assault phase.
2. A model must make a 3D6 Leadership test for each selection from Mindshackle Scarabs.
3. A model makes only one set of D3 attacks for any number of failures from Mindshackle Scarab 3D6 Leadership tests.
4. A model can attack itself when infected with Mindshackle Scarabs.

I do not agree that a unit of one would attack another unit in a multiple combat. The entry clearly states "his own unit", not "any friendly unit that is part of the same combat".

Hmm, I want to discuss this point further.

Let's say we have a Wolf Lord who joined a pack of Blood Claws. The Wolf Lord has a bolt pistol, power weapon and the Saga of the Warrior Born. Page 64 for the Saga of the Warrior Born in the Space Wolves Codex states, "During the Assault phase, the character gets a bonus of his Assault attacks equal to the number of the models he killed during the previous Assault phase.". This Wolf Lord will be a real buzzsaw in close-combat, and must be stopped.

A Wolf Lord is an Independent Character. Page 49 of the 5th edition 40K rulebook under the heading of INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS & ASSAULTS states, "When the attacks are resolved, however, independent characters are always treated as a separate single-model unit (as described under Multiple Combats on page 41), even though they have joined the unit."

Once again, the description for Mindshackle Scarabs on page 81 states, "... If the [3D6 Leadership] test is failed, the victim strikes out at his allies. Instead of attacking normally, he inflicts D3 hits on his own unit when it is his turn to attack. ...".

I see two interpretations when combining these two rules above about Mindshackle Scarabs and INDEPENDENT CHARACTERS & ASSAULTS as follows:

- simple: the infected Wolf Lord only attacks himself.
- complex: the infected Wolf Lord attacks the Blood Claws first, and then attacks himself after the Blood Claws are killed.

Although the complex interpretation feels like the intent of the Mindshackle Scarabs, the simple one fits the rules as is (for 5th edition 40K).

Doug

[Chimera]

Tricky. Given that he's treated as a separate unit all attacks are resolved I think he'd attack himself like any other single model unit. Sounds pretty crazy but I think that's the way it must work given the rules (until FAQ'd).

[Twinlinked]

Tricky. Given that he's treated as a separate unit all attacks are resolved I think he'd attack himself like any other single model unit. Sounds pretty crazy but I think that's the way it must work given the rules (until FAQ'd).

I agree that is the best way to interpret it until an FAQ clarifies..

A.